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> Australia And The Surrender Monkey Syndrome
Brendon
post Jan 15 2008, 06:18 PM
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I looked at the papers today, and this time its Mike Whitney getting stuck into Ponting's men. Yet another player, along with Greg Matthews whom we all wonder how the hell they ever got more than one cap for Australia.

Whitney and Matthews should remind us that losing is bad. We sure did a lot of that when they were players. Back in the day.

Whitney says its all Symonds fault. Roebuck tells us the Australians are behaving terribly. Matthews pans Ponting. Betrrand tells us Ponting's behaviour is below par. This from a guy who cheated with a winged keel and got drunk on champagne the day he won.

Geoff Lawson, who once had G. Greenidge threaten to break every bone in his body for abusing him while we walked off after being given out attacks the current crop of players for sledging. Tony Grieg, that arrogant ex South African who once famously (infamously?) told the West Indies he would have them grovelling at his feet, has had a go at Ponting too.

John Bertrand knows squat about cricket. So too Herb Eliot. How do I know?! Because - except for Harbhajan - both teams have behaved impeccably in the first two Tests. Find one thing Roebuck wrote that was derogatory of Ponting's men behaviour in the Indian Tests prior to his ridiculous "Ponting must be sacked" article.

The Indians are laughing up their sleeve. So they should. Our former elite athletes and journos are acting like General Pétain welcoming the Germans into Paris. Its embarrassing.

Our press stands by idly while Kumble in his disgraceful post-match interview strongly hints that Ponting and his boys are cheats. The Indian press and their general population are in a fury, feeding of the half truths from their media.

No-one has looked at the Clarke catch. Nor have they remembered why Ganguly said it was not a catch. Let me refresh: Ganguly claimed that it bounced before Clarke got it. Ganguly is on record as saying that is why he stood his ground.

I will offer a million bucks to anyone who can find a video that shows the ball bouncing before it comes to Clarke. My money is safe because if you take the time to view it over and over you can see, even on the grainy video the ball is clearly dropping into Clarke's hands and not on the bounce.

On this alone Ganguly and Kumble should be crucified (figuratively) by our press. Instead Clarke and Ponting are made to look like cheats. Its disgusting.

Since when did gutless become a synonym for unbiased?

Australia, and not Ponting, should be ashamed of itself.

This post has been edited by Brendon: Jan 15 2008, 06:31 PM
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Brendon
post Jan 15 2008, 06:41 PM
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I mention the Clarke catch because it is central to the accusations from the Indian side that the Australians cheated and India is a victim of a huge conspiracy. Blathering on about when the catch is completed and saying Clarke grounded the ball after he rolled is besides the point.

Ganguly said the ball bounced first before Clarke caught it. And there is video evidence to state that is wrong.

Might I add that Clarke, in the action of pushing himself up and throwing the ball was still in the action of catching the ball.... in what universe?! Where do these ppl come from?

This is Gavaskar's claim. Agree with that and you are really drinking kool-aid from a guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. He is to race relations what Germaine Greer today is to feminism.

How long should a player control the ball in his hands before further movement is regarded as "part of the catch"? Clarke was picking himself up, for goodness sake. Ian Chappell's eye roll to Gavaskar's ridiculous claim said it all.

Get this fact straight and all of a sudden you realize you have been had by clever psychological tactics by India.

This post has been edited by Brendon: Jan 15 2008, 07:18 PM
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jamstains
post Jan 15 2008, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (Brendon @ Jan 15 2008, 10:41 AM) *
How long should a player control the ball in his hands before further movement is regarded as "part of the catch"?


Ask Herschelle Gibbs.........


Some good points there Brendon, but I think the Indians were not just aggrieved by the Aussies but also the quality of the umpiring in this series. And it's obviously easier to have a go against your opponents as you won't be fined as a result.


I think Aussie's (or rather Punter's) behaviour on the field of play was below their usual standard, but can fully understand why.
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Brendon
post Jan 15 2008, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (jamstains @ Jan 15 2008, 08:46 PM) *
Ask Herschelle Gibbs.........


Some good points there Brendon, but I think the Indians were not just aggrieved by the Aussies but also the quality of the umpiring in this series. And it's obviously easier to have a go against your opponents as you won't be fined as a result.


I think Aussie's (or rather Punter's) behaviour on the field of play was below their usual standard, but can fully understand why.


hi jamstains,

The Indian team had every right to feel they got the wrong end of the stick from poor umpiring.

Then again if Laxman was given out LBW at 17, and Tendulkar given out LBW at 36 - and all Australia's lucky breaks given out - the game would have been over in a day and a half. LOL

I'm addressing India's attack on the Australian team. Its personal, vindictive, and totally unfair. This is about surrender monkeys in our own media and former elite sportmen many who have blemished records themselves and have no idea about the vagaries and pressures that our current Test team are up against. They have latched on to Kumble's outrageous attack so quickly and so uncritically its almost suspicious.



Its all very well for past players to go on about mediation or just taking on the chin. But they don't put themselves in Ponting's position who is the first Australian captain to have colored player in his team. Times have changed. This isn't the seventies.

And the psychological war is working a treat! I would not be at all surprised if Ponting and the lads felt like lepers in their own country with some of the bile I have seen in our media.

This post has been edited by Brendon: Jan 15 2008, 10:48 PM
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Brendon
post Jan 15 2008, 10:22 PM
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I have seen scores of catches where the catching fieldsman has held the ball for less than half second before throwing it the air and running for joy to his team-mates.

In these instances they have held the ball far less time than Clarke did. Into the hands and up in the aire all in one motion.

A bit of a presumption by the catcher in this brave new Gavaskar-World, I would think. Where is that second or so where we can all see that the catching fieldsman has control. It may just as well have bounced out.

I mean really, what is the difference.

The grounding claim is merely a retreat from Ganguly's first untruth that the ball was caught on the half volley. They had to come up with something. And the good little surrender monkeys that some of us are, we actually consider this ludicrous proposition.

Let me say: the idea of grounding is that the ground has not aided in controlling the catch. Thats all. Clarke was picking himself up. He had already caught it. Otherwise it would have slipped out of his fingers as he picked himself up, no?

Look up what Roebuck says about it. Its disgraceful, and gutless. It seems Roebuck hasn't bothered to listen to Ganguly's claim, and he hasn't viewed the replay of the catch to check Ganguly's claim. It reads like Roebuck just passed an irate Kumble in the corridor, who had just passed an irate Ganguly looking to give out excuses.
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Brendon
post Jan 15 2008, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE (jamstains @ Jan 15 2008, 08:46 PM) *
I think Aussie's (or rather Punter's) behaviour on the field of play was below their usual standard, but can fully understand why.


Yes, the awful Mr Ponting. That awful man who called back Dravid on day two because he wasn't sure he caught the ball.

OK, link one article from any noted journalist covering either Test prior to the end of the last Test where Ponting's behaviour is condemned.

In one article (prior to the end of the second test), Roebuck says Ponting is acting agitated as if he is holding it in. But Roebuck seems to blame the stirring of Harbhajan as the cause. Roebuck implies Harbhajan is stirring the pot.

That is the worst I had read during the Tests.

I went to the MCG. Both team behaved well.

During the last day the Australian team acted like every other half decent fielding team does when there is a chance of victory.

Get a tape of the West Indian team's immediate response after they got McDermott in Adelaide. Have a look at the Poms in 2005.

How awful of them to get carried away for a couple of minutes.
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Shane
post Jan 16 2008, 06:05 AM
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G'day Brendon....well said....you've hit the nail right on the head, however we should be used to what is happening with all this crap. It's truly nothing more than the Tall Poppy Syndrome at work. When an Aussie battler is at the bottom of the pile and working his way up every man and his dog is behind him, when he gets to the top.......every man and his dog condemns and criticises him.

The problem with the Indians here apart from the umpiring bloopers which as you mention went BOTH ways is the fact the Indians were totally embarassed and left in shock after being skittled by a part time pie chucker taking 3 wickets in 5 balls, a feat we all could never imagine would happen. Kumbles team lost the unlosable.

Clarks comment to Punter: "Give us a bowl skip, I've still got time to knock these blokes over and win this match" should be etched into the annals of Aussie cricket history.

What we must remember with the Aussie celebrations at the end of that match is, at first glance they may have seemed a little over the top, however this was a very unexpected last minute victory and will go down as one of the greatest finishes to a test match. It was an historic moment charged with emotion and the Aussie celebrations were deserving of the moment.

Don't read too much into the criticisms of retired cricketers and low quality cricket hacks with an axe to grind against Aussies. These guys are paid to get noticed and the best way to do this is to be controversial.....It's what made blokes like John Laws and Stan Zemanek such hot properties. Away from the microphones they were just everyday blokes who had the same outlook on life as the rest of us.

Having watched every moment of both tests so far.....My own eyes tell me what was what and like you, I have really seen nothing other than a few dodgy umpiring decisions and an Indian baboon allegedly calling one of our finest sons a Monkey....or should that be Mah - Ki....an old Indian term for "if pigs could fly." (IMG:http://abcofcricket.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Brendon
post Jan 16 2008, 08:26 AM
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Hi Shane,

yes, agreed... other than a few dodgy decisions there was nothing in this Test.

This is a psychological war with no plan, and no planner. Just turned out this way. It started with Kumble's disgraceful post-match interview. The emotion on the Indian side was shifted off the Indian team's performance and on to the Australians. There was always going to be feeling against the umpires.

Nobody's effigies should be burned over a cricket match. But Kumble made sure it wasn't going to be his. (IMG:http://abcofcricket.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

As for the response in our media, whether it was tall poppy syndrome, or just plain gutlessness, I don't know. A bit of both, maybe.

This post has been edited by Brendon: Jan 16 2008, 08:43 AM
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Prouty
post Jan 16 2008, 10:47 AM
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Brendan, You raise alot of valid points mate and it's quite refreshing to see an intelligent debate coming from someone so vehemently against the accusations being made by the Indians and the press at large. I tire of hearing people argue "Indians are just sore losers..rah rah rah..".

I do however stand by the comments made about Ponting in my thread. You can't overlook incidences such as his shouting down the barrel of the camera "How do you like that Tony Grieg?!!" or something of that nature, with regard to his decision to declare later than expected. It's arrogance, plain and simple. It's ugly, it's stupid and it's not the conduct of a leader. Mind you Ponting has always been a bit of an arrogant little bugger. But he's a captain now. Time to put on the big boy pants.

Anyway now that the dust has settled somewhat (not withstanding India's obovious influence over the ICC on show for all to see), as an Aussie and as a cricket fan I am just looking forward to 1.30pm today when that first ball is bowled..
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Brendon
post Jan 16 2008, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE (Prouty @ Jan 16 2008, 11:47 AM) *
Brendan, You raise alot of valid points mate and it's quite refreshing to see an intelligent debate coming from someone so vehemently against the accusations being made by the Indians and the press at large. I tire of hearing people argue "Indians are just sore losers..rah rah rah..".

I do however stand by the comments made about Ponting in my thread. You can't overlook incidences such as his shouting down the barrel of the camera "How do you like that Tony Grieg?!!" or something of that nature, with regard to his decision to declare later than expected. It's arrogance, plain and simple. It's ugly, it's stupid and it's not the conduct of a leader. Mind you Ponting has always been a bit of an arrogant little bugger. But he's a captain now. Time to put on the big boy pants.

Anyway now that the dust has settled somewhat (not withstanding India's obovious influence over the ICC on show for all to see), as an Aussie and as a cricket fan I am just looking forward to 1.30pm today when that first ball is bowled..


Hi Prouty,

No, I'm not defending Ponting's go at Grieg. But I'm not going to mix it in with Ponting's behaviour on the field which was very good. I'm having a go at the Indian's attack on Ponting and the other Australian players during the match.

I was defending the Australians behaviour on the field over the past two tests. Iam replying to Kumble's comments regarding play in the Test matches.

Ponting's fault he is a hot-head by nature. Considering the way he conducts himself on the field, I think he does well to contain that most of the time. Harbhajan was really trying to get under his skin while everyone else was on their best behaviour. That might explain (but not excuse) his outburst to Grieg.

I also think Ponting has shown over his career as much integrity as any Test captain I have seen. So IMO, he has been roughly treated. The facts have been thrown out the door.

This post has been edited by Brendon: Jan 16 2008, 11:24 AM
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